The super secrets for recordings of Mengelberg

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The results of analysis of the recording of Mengelberg Beethoven Symphony No. 5

The results of analysis of the recording of Mengelberg Beethoven Symphony No. 5



This page is the results of analysis of the recording of Mengelberg Beethoven Symphony No. 5.

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Conclusion

Teldec 4509-95515-2 is recording date in the CD jacket has been described as May 4, 1937, it is considered to be the Gramophone recording of the April 15, 1942.

Currently, the recording of the Beethoven Symphony No. 5 of Mengelberg that are on CD is as follows.

April 11, 1922 Gramophone recording (first movement only)

May 4, 1937 days Gramophone recording

April 18, 1940 days Live recording

April 15, 1942 Gramophone recording

Analysis basis

As a reference, I use the date of the Netherlands Willem Mengelberg Society.

NYPO, dinsdag, 11 april, 1922

CGO, dinsdag, 4 mei, 1937

CGO, donderdag, 18 april, 1940

CGO, woensdag, 15 april, 1942

It was analyzed the following 6 CD.

April 11, 1922 : Gramophone recording

First movement only (other movement seems to have not been recorded)

VN-01842

vn-01842

May 4, 1937 : Gramophone recording

The VN-01829   CD jacket has been described as April 5, 1937, but is a clerical error.

vn-01829

18 april, 1940 : Live recording

PROC-1897

img689-small

MR2171

img964-small

VN-01812

vn-01812

April 15, 1942 : Gramophone recording

Teldec 4509-95515-2   CD jacket has been described as May 4, 1937, but is a clerical error.

img687-small

Waveform observation (by movement)

First movement

VN-01842   April 11, 1922 : Gramophone recording
vn-01842-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671922%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%881114%e6%97%a5%e3%83%8b%e3%83%a5

VN-01829    May 4, 1937 : Gramophone recording
vn-01829-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671937%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%885%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

PROC-1897    18 april, 1940 : Live recording
proc-1897-symphonie-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-01-allegro-con-brio-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

MR2171      18 april, 1940 : Live recording
mr2171-symphony-no-5-op-67-1st-mov-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

VN-01812      18 april, 1940 : Live recording
vn-01812-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

Teldec 4509-95515-2        April 15, 1942 : Gramophone recording
teldec-4509-95515-2-beethoven-symphony-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-1-allegro-con-brio

Second movement

VN-01829    May 4, 1937 : Gramophone recording
vn-01829-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671937%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%885%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

PROC-1897      18 april, 1940 : Live recording
proc-1897-symphonie-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-02-andante-con-moto-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

MR2171       18 april, 1940 : Live recording
mr2171-symphony-no-5-op-67-2nd-mov-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

VN-01812     18 april, 1940 : Live recording
vn-01812-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

Teldec 4509-95515-2        April 15, 1942 : Gramophone recording
teldec-4509-95515-2-beethoven-symphony-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-2-andante-con-moto

Third movement

VN-01829    May 4, 1937 : Gramophone recording
vn-01829-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671937%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%885%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

PROC-1897      18 april, 1940 : Live recording
proc-1897-symphonie-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-03-scherzo-allegro-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

MR2171      18 april, 1940 : Live recording
mr2171-symphony-no-5-op-67-3rd-mov-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

VN-01812      18 april, 1940 : Live recording
vn-01812-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

Teldec 4509-95515-2      April 15, 1942 : Gramophone recording
teldec-4509-95515-2-beethoven-symphony-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-3-allegro

4th movement

VN-01829    May 4, 1937 : Gramophone recording
vn-01829-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671937%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%885%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

PROC-1897       18 april, 1940 : Live recording
proc-1897-symphonie-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-04-allegro-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

MR2171       18 april, 1940 : Live recording
mr2171-symphony-no-5-op-67-4th-mov-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5

VN-01812       18 april, 1940 : Live recording
vn-01812-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

Teldec 4509-95515-2        April 15, 1942 : Gramophone recording
teldec-4509-95515-2-beethoven-symphony-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-4-allegro

Waveform comparison result

All four types of recording of April 11, 1922, May 4, 1937, April 18, 1940,  April 15, 1942 were confirmed to have different characteristics in each.

For April 18, 1940, I compared 3 CD (PROC-1897, MR2171, VN-01812).

Apparently there is a big difference in the waveform amplitude, is due to the recording volume and noise processing of the CD. I confirmed these 3 CD are the recording of the same performance from the features on the performance (inclination or time to represent the intonation of the waveform).

In PROC-1897 it has been included, such as tuning between movements and after playing applause.

The MR2171, the amount of information that has been recorded including noise, so very vivid!

Playing time (First movement only)

For reference, to compare only the measurement results first movement of the playing time.

Since the first movement begins with a rest, it’s time was measured until the end of the sound from the first sound.

VN-01842 (1922): 6:17

VN-01829 (1937): 7:52

PROC-1897 (1940): 6:17
MR2171 (1940): 6:16
VN-01812 (1940): 6:17

Teldec 4509-95515-2 (1942): 7:42

The data of the Netherlands Willem Mengelberg Society is the following.

NYPO, dinsdag, 11 april, 1922: 6:25

CGO, dinsdag, 4 mei, 1937: 8:01

CGO, donderdag, 18 april, 1940: 6:37

CGO, woensdag, 15 april, 1942: 7:48

Interestingly, It has 6 minutes and 17 seconds in the live session recording and 1940 of the NYP,

However in the studio recording of the Concertgebouw it has become a performance multiplied by the time that the 7 minute of the second half.

I do not know how may understand this.

Impression

While there are four types, which has also different playing impression.

This is the feeling and marks the impression in one sentence without fear of misunderstanding.

1922(NYP) is portamento most effective performance. (I feel sexy)

1937 has a driving force.

1940 is the most dense performance.

1942 performance that has been emphasized stand-cart is the best (crisp feel better)

Individual by the impression is different.

Waveform  (the beginningof the first movement)

I added waveform of the beginning of  the first movement, for further detailed comparison.

VN-01842 April 11, 1922 : Gramophone recording
vn-01842-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671922%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%881114%e6%97%a5%e3%83%8b%e3%83%a5

VN-01829    May 4, 1937 : Gramophone recording
vn-01829-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671937%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%885%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

PROC-1897         18 april, 1940 : Live recording
proc-1897-symphonie-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-01-allegro-con-brio-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5ex

MR2171          18 april, 1940 : Live recording
mr2171-symphony-no-5-op-67-1st-mov-1940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5-ex

VN-01812         18 april, 1940 : Live recording
vn-01812-%e4%ba%a4%e9%9f%bf%e6%9b%b2%e7%ac%ac5%e7%95%aa%e3%80%8e%e9%81%8b%e5%91%bd%e3%80%8f%e3%83%8f%e7%9f%ad%e8%aa%bf%e4%bd%9c%e5%93%81671940%e5%b9%b44%e6%9c%8818%e6%97%a5%e3%82%b3%e3%83%b3%e3%82%bb

Teldec 4509-95515-2       April 15, 1942 : Gramophone recording
teldec-4509-95515-2-beethoven-symphony-no-5-in-c-minor-op-67-1-allegro-con-brio-ex

In the live performance of 1940, such as surprise, there is a great feature.
I have a strong impression to the crescendo of from 60 bar to 78 bar.Perhaps the audience that day was in the concert hall of the Concertgebouw is I think it is involuntarily drank the breath.

On the other hand, the performance of 1942, such as pressing a Sew – Sew – Sew – Me, and one sound one note just in case, it’s a unique performance.

At this time, it does not come out the difference in playing time in each performance.

(But there is a difference of two seconds near the shortest and the longest)

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Looking for the last recording

nakamura-kyoto

I'm japanese web contents designer. I'm looking for the last concert recording of Mengelberg at 18th june 1944. That concert was Beethoven Symphony No.9 "Choral" !

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