{"id":27,"date":"2016-08-31T21:11:01","date_gmt":"2016-08-31T12:11:01","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/?page_id=27"},"modified":"2016-08-31T21:32:06","modified_gmt":"2016-08-31T12:32:06","slug":"mengelberg-beethoven-symphony-no-9-a-result-of-analysis-of-the-1938-recording","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/?page_id=27","title":{"rendered":"Mengelberg Beethoven Symphony No. 9 A result of analysis of the 1938 recording"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><script src=\"\/\/pagead2.googlesyndication.com\/pagead\/js\/adsbygoogle.js\" async=\"\"><\/script><br \/>\n<script>\/\/ <![CDATA[ (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({ google_ad_client: \"ca-pub-7449767836059688\", enable_page_level_ads: true }); \/\/ ]]><\/script><br \/>\nThis page is about the performance of Beethoven&#8217;s Symphony No. 9 of Mengelberg, which is a record in 1938.<\/p>\n<p>Below is\u00a0the results of the analysis.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>As a reference, I use the date of the Netherlands Willem Mengelberg Association.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">May 31, 1938<br \/>\nJune 1, 1938<br \/>\nBecause of &#8220;Date uncertain&#8221;, this date has been left the possibility of another recording date.<\/p>\n<p>I analyzed three CDs.<\/p>\n<p>From conclusion, I believe that below,<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">Record of May 31, 1938: VN-01825<br \/>\nRecord of June 1, 1938: CD 918, MR2170<\/span><\/p>\n<p>So, I attach the data of the estimated basis below.<\/p>\n<h3>Details of CDs<\/h3>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">CD title: Beethoven: Complete Symphonies<br \/>\nCD number: <span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">MR2170<\/span> (5th of 5CD sets of Symphonies)<br \/>\nManufacturer: Memories<br \/>\nRecording of CD described date: May 31, 1938<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-35\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/img963-300x259.jpg\" alt=\"img963\" width=\"300\" height=\"259\" srcset=\"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/img963-300x259.jpg 300w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/img963-768x664.jpg 768w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/img963-1024x885.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/img963.jpg 2008w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Mengelberg Conducts Beethoven Symphony No.9 &#8220;Choral&#8221; 1938 Live Performance<br \/>\nCD number: <span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">CD 918<\/span><br \/>\nManufacturer: Music &amp; Arts<br \/>\nRecording of CD described date: May 1, 1938<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-34\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD918-300x135.jpg\" alt=\"CD918\" width=\"300\" height=\"135\" srcset=\"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD918-300x135.jpg 300w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD918-768x347.jpg 768w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD918-1024x462.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD918.jpg 1158w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">CD title: Willem Mengelberg The Collection<br \/>\n<span style=\"color: #ff0000;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">CD number:<\/span> VN-01825<\/span>\u00a0 (25th of CD BOX )<br \/>\nManufacturer: VENIAS<br \/>\nRecording of CD described date: May 1, 1938<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-36\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD25-300x300.jpg\" alt=\"CD25\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD25-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD25-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD25.jpg 521w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/p>\n<h3>Time<\/h3>\n<h4>MR2170<\/h4>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">There is no description of the playing time on the CD.<br \/>\nThese time of below are reading display play time of the CD player.<br \/>\n1st movement: 15:48<br \/>\n2nd movement: 12:29<br \/>\n3rd movement: 16:37<br \/>\n4th movement: 26: 58<\/p>\n<h4>CD 918<\/h4>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">1st movement: 15:06<br \/>\n2nd movement: 12:10<br \/>\n3rd movement: 16:31<br \/>\n4th movement: 27: 02<\/p>\n<h4>VN-01825<\/h4>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">1st movement: 15:14<br \/>\n2nd movement: 12:07<br \/>\n3rd movement: 16:17<br \/>\n4th movement: 25: 48<\/p>\n<h4>Data of May 31, 1938 according to the Willem Mengelberg Association<\/h4>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">1st movement: 14:17<br \/>\n2nd movement: 11:34<br \/>\n3rd movement: 16:06<br \/>\n4th movement: 26:16<\/p>\n<h4>Data of\u00a0June 1, 1938\u00a0according to the Willem Mengelberg Association<\/h4>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">1st movement: 15:11<br \/>\n2nd movement: 12:18<br \/>\n3rd movement: 16:38<br \/>\n4th movement: 27: 00<\/p>\n<h3>Waveform of the CD playback sound<\/h3>\n<h4>MR2170<\/h4>\n<p>1st movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-244 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/MR2170-1st.jpg\" alt=\"MR2170 1st\" width=\"1223\" height=\"182\" \/><\/p>\n<p>2nd movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-245 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/MR2170-2nd.jpg\" alt=\"MR2170 2nd\" width=\"1225\" height=\"183\" \/><\/p>\n<p>3rd movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-246 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/MR2170-3rd.jpg\" alt=\"MR2170 3rd\" width=\"1223\" height=\"186\" \/><\/p>\n<p>4th movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-247 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/MR2170-4th.jpg\" alt=\"MR2170 4th\" width=\"1221\" height=\"181\" \/><\/p>\n<h4>CD 918<\/h4>\n<p>1st movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-240 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD-918-1st.jpg\" alt=\"CD 918 1st\" width=\"1221\" height=\"188\" \/><\/p>\n<p>2nd movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-241 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD-918-2nd.jpg\" alt=\"CD 918 2nd\" width=\"1226\" height=\"186\" \/><\/p>\n<p>3rd movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-242 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD-918-3rd.jpg\" alt=\"CD 918 3rd\" width=\"1222\" height=\"186\" \/><\/p>\n<p>4th movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-243 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/CD-918-4th.jpg\" alt=\"CD 918 4th\" width=\"1224\" height=\"187\" \/><\/p>\n<h4>VN-01825<\/h4>\n<p>1st movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-248 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/VN-01825-1st.jpg\" alt=\"VN-01825 1st\" width=\"1226\" height=\"183\" \/><\/p>\n<p>2nd movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-249 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/VN-01825-2nd.jpg\" alt=\"VN-01825 2nd\" width=\"1222\" height=\"187\" \/><\/p>\n<p>3rd movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-250 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/VN-01825-3rd.jpg\" alt=\"VN-01825 3rd\" width=\"1224\" height=\"186\" \/><\/p>\n<p>4th movement<br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-251 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/VN-01825-4th.jpg\" alt=\"VN-01825 4th\" width=\"1219\" height=\"186\" \/><\/p>\n<h3>How to read the data<\/h3>\n<p>Playing time of the CD described (track playback time of the CD) is, in fact, is not\u00a0accurate.<br \/>\nWhether they put a interval between the movement, or not,<br \/>\nWhether they count to\u00a0the end of the sound from the first sound, or not,<br \/>\nThe definition is iffy,\u00a0\u00a0moreover there might be a copy mistake, read mistake, write mistake(eg. typo).<\/p>\n<p>For the waveform, \u00a0you can not determine whether the same or different from the size of the amplitude of the waveform.<br \/>\nCD volume level at the time of recording for each has been different, because\u00a0its own adjustment.<\/p>\n<p>Based on the waveform, if you want to determine whether the performance is the same, one is but a certain volume, look at or to another waveform there is a climax.<br \/>\nOr to determine by the slope of the waveform of the places where with the intensity.<br \/>\nEven in another recording, something similar playing style, and has been with the same kind of intensity, the identification of the waveform is impossible.<\/p>\n<p>This compares to focus on the 4th movement.<br \/>\nAs a precaution, in addition to the 3 CDs kinds of 1938, recording of the May 2, 1940 (ARPCD192).<br \/>\nRecordings of the Beethoven&#8217;s Symphony No. 9 of Mengelberg are\u00a0all in this combination so far.<\/p>\n<p>It will be in the following order from top to bottom.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">CD918 (1938)<br \/>\nMR2170 (1938)<br \/>\nVN-01825 (1938)<br \/>\nARPCD192 (1940)<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-268\" src=\"http:\/\/mengelberg.kyoto-svp.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/19381940_4th_waves.jpg\" alt=\"1938,1940_4th_waves\" width=\"1028\" height=\"687\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Fom the waveform of\u00a0CD918 and MR2170, you could see almost the same trend.<\/p>\n<p>The amplitude is seen a big difference, but this is mastering technician when turned into CD is a difference between whether or not to cut a certain frequency band, not a difference in the content.<\/p>\n<p>In other words, when viewed from the waveform CD918 and MR2170 is, it seems to the same recording.<\/p>\n<p>Compared to the 2 CDs (CD918 and MR2170) , VN-01825 is, there are a couple of places that show a clearly different trend.<\/p>\n<p>First of all, the place where the first theme is played by the strings (Vlc. and Cb. next to Vla. and to Vl.),<\/p>\n<p>In the 2 CDs (CD918 and MR2170) , the sound of the orchestra is gradually crescendo, but the VN-01825, has almost remained constant volume. This trend is the same, even the other two places in the figure.<\/p>\n<p>Also, in the 2 CDs (CD918 and MR2170), extremely diminunendo after 14 minutes.<br \/>\nIn score, just before entering the overall response of the third group in the ff from 543 measure\u00a0through the interlude specific long development of the orchestra.\u00a0The VN-01825 does not have a so extreme. Playing time also come before the 14 minutes.<\/p>\n<p>From comparison of the waveform, but would become in such a description, but are actually listening, while the two(CD918 and MR2170) have been made intense expression with the amplitude, the VN-01825, proceed with great driving force, is the impression of it.<\/p>\n<p>For reference, in the recording of the May 2, 1940, it is a great feature that the performance of the subject by the Vlc. and Cb. \u00a0from 92 measure to 102 measure is played in a too very soft tone.Here are two types of recording of 1938, it is greatly different place.<\/p>\n<p>By the way, in this ARPCD192 it has been noise removal, but in other CDs of 1940 have bubble wrap and noise entered in that part. Melody achieved by the Vlc. and Cb. hardly hear, only noise is the feeling that attaches to the ear.<\/p>\n<h3>Your ear is the most reliable<\/h3>\n<p>After all, it is recommended that you try to listen in your own ear of the actual sound.<\/p>\n<p>For example, if you compare to listen to Reshitativo at the beginning of the fourth movement, I think the difference between the two types of performance is easy to understand.<\/p>\n<p>And crucially, the recording of June 1, 1938, the fourth movement of 4 minutes ago (almost 3 minutes and 52 seconds), to around 100 bar and referred to in the score, <strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">a relatively large coughing noise<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0it contains!<\/p>\n<p>On the other hand, it does not exist in the recording of the May 31, 1938. (Of course it does not have at recording May 2, 1940)<\/p>\n<h3>Postscript<\/h3>\n<p>I&#8217;ll do the recorded waveform comparison of each CDs in 1940 in the near future, but looking at the waveform, there is something interesting is suggest the trend of re-mastering.<\/p>\n<p>I think the MR2170 is the most abundant, including, and\u00a0the impression that I heard was also similar.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, is whether it is easy to listen to, will be another story.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This page is about the performance of Beethoven&#8217;s Symphony No. 9 of Mengelberg, which is a record in 1938. Below is\u00a0the results of the analysis. As a reference, I use the date of the Netherlands Willem Mengelberg Association. May 31, 1938 June 1, 1938 Because of &#8220;Date uncertain&#8221;, this date has been left the possibility of another recording date. I analyzed three CDs. From conclusion, I believe that below, Record of May 31, 1938: VN-01825 Record of June 1, 1938: CD 918, MR2170 So, I attach the data of the estimated basis below. Details of CDs CD title: Beethoven: Complete Symphonies CD number: MR2170 (5th of 5CD sets of Symphonies) [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":16,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":42,"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27\/revisions\/42"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/16"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mengelberg-en.kyoto-svp.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}